Tinubu running Nigeria like an emperor, says Sule Lamido

Sule Lamido is a former governor of Jigawa State and Minister of Foreign Affairs. In this interview, which was monitored on Arise Television, he speaks about the political calculations, coalition talks and President Bola Tinubu’s chances of losing re-election among other issues

Are you a part of the ongoing coalition of opposition parties in the country?

I’ll try to decipher what you are asking me, however, I am part of any arrangement, no matter by whatever nomenclature or name, to remove the current government of incompetence, of insecurity, of dividing the Nigerian family between North and South, out of power. I’ll go into any arrangement for that purpose. What I’m saying is this: what you see, don’t panic. you see, I’m not going to keep on panicking over issues. I don’t panic. I work with my eyes wide open. What I’m saying is that today in Nigeria, we’ve got a government which is dividing Nigerians along North and South, dividing Nigerians along ethnic lines, and also using institutions of the state in manipulating and controlling and coercing the opposition.

For instance, I just saw a programme now of the governor of Akwa Ibom State, and when I saw him speak, I just pitied him, because he’s somebody who two years ago was unknown in Nigeria, unknown by anybody, who was then honoured and dignified by PDP and made a governor. See him talking now. I mean, renouncing his own history, his own tradition, his own legacy. It’s just a pity. So to me, coming from the old generation, I’m not really frightened by the way the current generation is moving around.

So to me, I’ll be part of any arrangement of any chemistry, any configuration, whatever you may call it, if it’s going to move this government out of power, because the government for the first time in Nigeria is now a government not for Nigerians, but then for the political party. The entire government today in Nigeria is not for Nigeria; it’s for the political party. I mean, how do you imagine the president holding the political party function of the APC in the villa, a very sacred place in the centre of Nigerian power for all Nigerians, holding party function in the villa? So you could see how low we have sunk. You could see how really the country is literally gone, under Tinubu. So again, I will be part of any arrangement, anything which is going to make sure this party is flushed out of power. I’ll follow that.

Tinubu’s benchmarking of his contributions to democracy and fighting militocracy, considering what we are witnessing now. What sense do you make of his Democracy Day speech?

You see, I feel highly entertained by Tinubu’s rhetorics and the way he’s dramatizing his own role in Nigerian democracy. Luckily, we’re all alive. We’re all there. We all, you know, participated in that particular sphere of politics. So I was in the middle of it. Tinubu became relevant and noticeable after Abacha took over government. Before then, he was in the Senate, I was the secretary of the party. And with all respect to him, you see, he was part of those people who were supporting Babangida’s annulment of June 12th. He was part of it. His own mother, Alhaja Mogaji from Lagos, was organizing Lagos working women to come to Abuja to pledge support for Babangida. I’m saying this because it’s simply history. I mean no harm. I don’t mean to embarrass him. But you see, he was actively hand in gloves to Babangida. Now, when Babangida saw the fact that he was having a problem with the party, he went to the National Assembly to address them. One infamous speech was; “they are trying to incite you. It’s you they are against.” Tinubu was there. And Iyorchia Ayu became very firm and straight on the issue of June 12th. He called a meeting, them being the only senior elected person in government at that time, the Senate President. He convened a meeting in Edo, in Benin, with the governor, where we went there and reaffirmed our commitment to June 12th. Babangida was so angry with Ayu. Ayu came, but he removed him and put another person.

He put him there so that they can be aligned to Babangida political machinations. So when Tinubu today, after being a president, decided to rewrite history, well, trying to maybe to deconstruct history and then rewrite it, then it is very, very amusing because he was part of the Babangida support of June 12th. He was part of it. Now, it was only when Sani Abacha took over government that Tinubu then became our so-called activist of June 12th. Not only him, all those who are talking about June 12th in NADECO, I mean no harm and no disrespect, I’m simply saying what happened during that time.

All of them, all of them, those who were in NADECO, where were they on June 11th? They had no part in June 12th. They are not part of June 12th campaign. They are not part of the June 12th activities.. So, when Abiola won the election, and then after the annulment, they are all very passive but suddenly, after Abacha came on board, removing Chief Ernest Shonekan, they became activists. They formed NADECO. NADECO was a post-Election formation.

NADECO was something which was formed to fight Abacha. Not to fight democracy, not to fight June 12th. So, whatever Tinubu is doing today is simply reconstructing history the way he sees it is going to fit his own political interests.

But then, obviously, he was a major supporter of Babangida. Ask Babangida. Ask him. So, when you talk about only June 12th, who are those characters? They ran away and we stayed behind. We fought Abacha. I was detained because of my fight with Abacha. I was detained. All of us, Adamu Ciroma, Bola Ige, Iyorchia Ayu, and many others, Bugaje, all of them were there and we fought Abacha because we are willing to risk our lives.

Tinubu ran away. He was not in the country. He only came back after the coast was very clear. So, what I’m saying is, all those advocates of June 12th, they are more concerned with the bath water than the baby. They are more concerned because most of them were at the end of the meal. When the product was being processed they simply picked up the product. The process which produced the product, they are not there. They are not part of it. They only picked the product. And to them, it’s not about the victor, but it’s about the victory, more than anything else.

So, we made this kind of distinction. The difference between the victory and the victor, the NADECO were more concerned with the victory than the victor. As far as they are concerned, the bath water they are trying to use, they are trying to hang on to their own kind of writing to reinvent history in Nigeria. Otherwise I feel embarrassed for the President. For the way he’s talking. Honestly, ask anybody. Ask Ayu and Jerry Gana. They’re all there. So, what is happening today in Nigeria is simply something very laughable. People who have no political degree, who have no political history, who are not known as fighters, are now at the forefront fighting for Nigerian democracy. It’s so laughable.

You said you were laughing when Governor Umo Eno was speaking. If I remember correctly, there was a time in the nation that you, along with some other governors of the PDP, switched camps. Isn’t that the same thing that Umo Eno and people like Sheriff Oborevwori are doing now?

Maybe I’m too young to understand history. But then, going into history, you know, the clash in PDP in 2014 was purely internal. We were working against what was happening in the party under Bamanga Tukur and President Jonathan. That let’s run the party based on our own rules and regulations. We should not create any situation for anybody to take advantage. So we were fighting for internal democracy in the PDP. But at that time, the APC was being formed and they tried to use the crisis in PDP to leverage our support. And I said, no, look, we are fighting within our party to install more internal democracy. However, if we, the governors, some of us, if you feel that you want to leave the party and join APC, fair enough, do what we did in 1983. In 1983, when there was a crisis in PRP, and we left the PRP to join NPP to run for elected offices, I resigned because I said, look, there is no way I can use the fortune of PRP which produced me because at the election of PRP, nobody knew Sule Lamido. Nobody knew Abubakar Rimi. We were unknown and, you know, unnoticed. It was the PRP and Malam Aminu Kano’s character and history which was being elected. So if we are going to leave his own party, it’s only fair we surrender to him, we relinquish everything about PRP and go and find our fortune in another political party. That’s what we did. So we left. I ran for the House of Reps.

I came and met Rimi. And Rimi, too, resigned from office as a governor of the state because there’s something called character in us, something called principles. But today for us, in 2014, I said, look, all those governors now, if we are going to leave the PDP, let’s now resign our office and then go and find our fortune somewhere in APC. But I cannot take the PDP fame, the PDP investment, the PDP treasure, the PDP legacy, and then go use it to fight them in the opposition. I can’t do that. So that’s why it was so. in 2014, we were simply fighting for internal democracy. And those who left the party and went to APC, most of them came back. So it’s because today we have no political character or principles. That’s why we have this kind of problem. Now look at this man, Governor Eno, I mean, who knew him before now? Nobody knew him. So today, people are using, you know, public office to promote their own interests. So if you remove this man (Eno) you are now showing me, if you remove that office from him, he’ll become nobody in Akwa Ibom. The same thing, if you remove the office, he’s holding, he’ll become another person like me. So you see, what I’m saying, if there’s something called character and honour, and the principles in politics, if people are going to change their political party, they should please relinquish whatever that party gave them, and go there and join as individuals and as ordinary people. But when you carry the aura, the authority, the paraphernalia of the office into opposition, to fight what made you, this is utterly immoral. So, during our own time, I say, you know, if I live in PDP, let us resign. When they fail to, I say, fine, I’m not going. I’m willing to resign as a governor of Jigawa State if I’m going to join APC. But then my colleagues say, no, they will not resign. So, today you have got a politics where there is no character, where there is no depth, where there is no honour. That’s the problem.

With what is happening in the coalition, is PDP dead?

PDP is not dead, because it cannot die. PDP is in APC. Look at, would you say Akpabio is dead. Is he dead? Isn’t he PDP? This man, they are calling Eno. Isn’t he PDP? Is he, is he dead? So, there is no APC, there is no PDP. We are not dead. We are everywhere. That’s why people are coming to us. That’s why they are doing this.

In the entire APCs, only, Adams Oshiomhole and Tinubu who are APC. All others are all PDP. I mean, the Chairman of APC, Umar Ganduje was in PDP before joining APC. I mean, anybody today in APC is PDP. So, we cannot be dead, because if we are dead, then the APC is dead. If we are dead, then APC is dead, because you are using dead people.

In 2023 you voted for a northern candidate, would you repeat the same in 2027?

Please, with all respect, don’t bring dichotomy of North and South into my politics. You know me very well. I don’t believe in North or South. I believe in Nigeria, because Nigeria has given me everything. So when I was voting in 2023, I was voting for a candidate called PDP. I was voting for PDP, not for Atiku. PDP is the Nigerian party not because I’m voting for a southerner or a northerner, no. I mean, go to my history. I voted Nnamdi Azikiwe in 1983. I voted Abiola against Tofa. So, I’ve been consistent. It is you who is simply using today’s maybe temperature to judge yesterday, who is making the kind of saying, you know, your logic is flawed. Your argument is flawed, not mine.

Some people are saying that the formation of All Democratic Alliance (ADA), that the time it’s coming is too short to sensitize, mobilize, and give APC a run for its money. Do you think so?

You see, first, why are we coming to alliance? It’s very important because there was alliance in 2014, which produced President Buhari. Was Nigeria better off in that alliance? The same alliance produced Tinubu, are we better off? So to me, alliance should be based on some issues. On issues about the country, insecurity, unity and prosperity, when we talk about the issues, then you can talk about election.

To me, whatever we do should be done through Nigeria, not through a candidate. Nigeria should be run through Nigeria. We should not have a candidate who will put Nigeria behind and leave Nigeria, no. So to me, the coalition I’m talking about is not similar to what we had in 2014, a coalition of anger, a coalition of revenge, a coalition of hatred, a coalition of nothing but ambition. That’s what we had in 2014, and that’s why the country did not gain out of it, because the entire country was left behind, and the General took over the interest, the emotion, the vengeance, the revenge, the hatred, and they took over. So what I’m saying, we are going to coalition now, but then the coalition should be based on some issues which the APC have brought on board, issues which you are using in 2014, but then which will fail. Therefore, the issues, first, of national unity is very important, because today Tinubu is using his own office to divide us into north and south using coercion, blackmail, like they did to Okowa.

We’re having a country being run by an emperor who has no level to how far he can go down. He can swing to any level, so long as he attains what he wants. So Tinubu is not about Yoruba. Tinubu is about him and him alone, his own interest. And whoever is going to play his own role, who is going to do his own bidding, he’ll bring him. I’ve been saying so. It’s not about Yoruba. All the Yoruba in APC today, in government, are his own boys who are going to do his own bidding, no more, no less. And therefore, if Yoruba man from the south is ready to do his own bidding, he’s willing to go and bring somebody from the south-south, southeast, or even from the north, so long as they are going to do Tinubu’s bidding. So Tinubu is behaving like the emperor he is. And unfortunately, he used the psychology and mentality of Lagos, of governing Lagos, to govern Nigeria. He came from a very tiny state called Lagos, which is a very small thing, applying the same philosophy, the same proof in Nigeria, which means privatizing the country, making it personal, an industry for him and him alone. That’s the problem we’re facing. And that’s why the issue of national unity, economy, security, are all abundant.

What’s your sense of the security situation in the country?

What was it in 2013 under Jonathan, what was it? And then when APC came, what were the issues they raised? They talked about security in Nigeria in 2014. They talked about economy in Nigeria. They talked about corruption in Nigeria. These were the issues they used to hoodwink Nigerians, isn’t it? Fair enough, now we’re flushed out of government. Jonathan lost the election, fair enough. Now we have today St. Tinubu and St. Buhari as our leaders. It’s all a ruse. So the issue they propagated in 2014, are the issues they failed to address, and that they should know they even compounded.